The Center for Michigan :: A Forum for Our State's Future


Conact Us
Newsletter
About the Center
Michigan's Defining Moment
Donate
The Center at Work

Discussion Archive: Page 2


By The Center for Michigan - February 9, 2007

In February of 2007, we asked "How do we best transform the size and role of government, and how best to pay for it?" We received some great answers and didn't want to lose all the ideas generated when we moved into our new web site.

We've archived the posts here and we ask you to respond with your thoughts on this page.

Good and Mad (guest)
02/09/2007 11:15 AM  
Sorry for the tenor of what I'm going to say-but after 50 years of running a family owned business - and if you knew how our market (residential real estate) has been destroyed - you might understand.-Let me just say this-- before you or any of your peers ( from whatever side ) suggest taxing or shifting tax on the private sector - start by slashing the benefits and wages of all government (state and local) employees down to the level that the Michigan private sector has had to do to survive. You folks in the think tanks, universities, unions and other protected environs are in for a rude awakening when all the working folks have left this state that we dearly love and gone elsewhere to find work. I can tell by your list of 8, that you too do not understand the severity of the situation.
May God help us all.
 
 
Fred Woodruff (guest)
02/09/2007 11:15 AM  
Good article. Attached is a copy of my letter. I guess it is up to he elected officials and I doubt if there is the political will to make the tough changes. What happened to the much ballyhooed (and expensive - 700,000?) training that the Governor and Chamber pushed on "reinventing government"?Fred Woodruff

I read in the Detroit News this morning that you have been appointed to the new panel that will make recommendations to the Governor on how to address the budget deficit. Are "congratulations" or "sympathy" in order?

I have listened to many discussions and read many opinion pieces about what to do with Michigan's structural deficit and the deficiencies with our tax structure and the need to "transform" it to reflect the 21str Century. I have read or heard very little discussion about "transforming" the Michigan government structure. We have an awful lot of layers of municipal government (with townships, villages, cities, counties and special purpose service districts) and school government (with K-12 school districts, county school districts, charter school districts, community colleges, 4-year colleges and universities and a myriad of specials training entities). All of these levels require revenue and there is really only one source for that (other than federal programs) and that is the taxpayers of the state, both individual and businesses.

So I would urge your panel to not only look at how to better fund government, but also how to better structure government and perhaps recommend ways that the levels and number of tax supported entities can be reorganized and streamlined to better serve our public needs. Perhaps your panel should consider a sort of "pay as you go" approach - for every dollar of new revenue that is raised, a dollar of cost should be removed, not necessarily by cutting programs or reducing services, but by funding better (and perhaps fewer) delivery structures.

Good Luck!

 
 
Dennis T. (guest)
02/09/2007 11:16 AM  
Privatize the correction systemCut 10% of the state staff in every functional department

Make the legislators part-time

Eliminate the townships

Reduce the Intermediate school districts by 50%

Reduce the school districts by 50%

 
 
Dan Brown (guest)
02/09/2007 11:16 AM  
Where is your "big-time structural reform within government itself"?Earlier you stated that state government is broke and I don't think you meant financially. The only reform you have suggested (that I have seen) is to eliminate term limits. Is that it? What about:
Proportional representation?
Instant run-off voting?
Unicameral legislature?
Fewer districts?
More districts?
Capital punishment for lobbying?
Public financing of elections?

Come on!

 
 
Don Wheatley (guest)
02/09/2007 11:16 AM  
Taxes are like Chemo Therapy; they can only shrink or kill what they are aimed at. Like chemo therapy they kill or injure unintended adjacent "tissue". For example when they put a luxury tax on big boats they put a lot of boat builders and their employees out of work. The industry never quite recovered; but the "wealthy" (the target) were not punished they just didn't buy boats.The increased taxes on new houses versus keep your old Headlee tax base makes it dumb to move up to a new house. Taxes kill house sales.

Government spending is the other end of the equation. If you pay unemployment, which sounds good, you end with more unemployed because you remove the incentive to work until the "rocking chair money" runs out.

Michigan has had the luxury of having a large oligopoly, the auto industry, paying large sums into the state coffers. Now the auto industry is sick and the state has not come to terms with the lack of income. They are frantically shifting tax payments forward; recently they directed that number of dependents for Michigan income tax be reset automatically to zero for 2007. Made property taxes payable sooner.

Michigan government doesn't quite get it. The party is over and now it is time to go on a diet. Even it Michigan goes on a diet, which it must, this will not bring back the halcyon days of manufacturing. The US government is at a disadvantage to our trading partners since they have Value Added Taxes which are basically Chemo Therapy towards imports.

We have both a state problem of living in the past and a national problem that the states cannot fix no matter how they fight amongst themselves for the shrinking manufacturing base.

That's my take

 
 
Tim Bartik (guest)
02/09/2007 11:17 AM  
To: The Center for MichiganFrom: Tim Bartik, Senior Economist at the Upjohn Institute and Board Trustee, Kalamazoo Public Schools (Note: the opinions expressed here are my own and should not be construed as official views of the Upjohn Institute or KPS)

Overall, the Center's policy memo outlined some significant ideas that need to be seriously considered for Michigan to have a sound budget structure. I have three quick comments on ways that the Center's policy package could be improved. I have focused my comments on areas in which I have some research background.

1. The Center's package mentions measuring the performance of public schools, among other public entities. Measuring the performance of public organizations is a great idea that can do a lot of good, but only if we can accurately measure true performance. Purported "performance measures" that in fact do not measure true performance can do more harm them good, as we may end up punishing the truly good performers and rewarding the bad performers. In the case of public schools, good performance measures will have to squarely face up to the thorny issue of how to adjust for the characteristics of students that affect such educationally relevant factors as how much students know when they enter school and how much learning they lose during the summer. Michigan has been unwilling to face this issue as of yet in evaluating the performance of public schools.

2. The Center's package mentions broadening the business tax base and lowering the rate. A more efficient business tax reform, rather than lowering the overall rate, would focus lower business tax rates on businesses that make new investments in Michigan and create new jobs in Michigan. This can be done through careful design of investment tax credits and job creation tax credits. Such a business tax reform focuses business tax relief on maximizing new business investment and job creation in Michigan.

3. The Center's package only briefly mentions developing proposals to improve the economic future of Michigan citizens. It seems to me this must be a central focus of any budget reform package. If Michigan citizens are going to go through the sacrifices implied by a budget package that significantly increases some taxes and significantly reduces some services, this package should be designed so that it is sufficient to provide significant financing for a redevelopment of the state's economy. How can we improve Michigan's future economic development? A budget package that lowered tax rates on new business investment and job creation, while investing in the long-run job skills of the state's citizens (human capital investments) and the quality of the state's infrastructure would help improve the long-run health of the state's economy. I already mentioned above how we could keep the current level of state business tax revenues, yet lower tax rates on new investment, by closing various tax loopholes and broadening the business tax base. There also are a variety of alternative policies that might significantly improve the state's human capital, include some statewide variant of the Kalamazoo Promise, statewide high school pull-out programs for math and science, universal high-quality preschool education, and customized job training.

 
 
Jim (guest)
02/09/2007 11:17 AM  
Good job; as you know, I have a son in prison... and the unfortunate part is the lack of programs in the prisons; the minimal staffing, and the high recidivism rates of offenders, perhaps because hiring a convicted felon in tough economic times is unlikely.... just letting people out is part of an answer, yet programs to train offenders... and including reinstituting " good time behavior" as part of a package that includes not only a good record by the felons but the desire to take some video training and volunteer led programs would help. Not to mention that the prisoners could be utilized , as they approach work release dates, in cleaning up Michigan's roadsides, State park maintenance, and cleaning up the abandoned homes in the cities that cannot afford to do anything about these situations due to lack of funding... prisoners could be encouraged by some payment...currently .50 /hour is a princely sum for prison labor... and it would allow them some money to have on release, currently a problem....
 
 
Arnold Weinfeld (guest)
02/09/2007 11:17 AM  
A first read of your report leads me to say that the statement regarding the funding of local governments is far too simplistic. To state that "For decades, most sales tax revenues have flowed to local schools and governments essentially automatically" is misleading and provides the reader with no historical context. As you know, the distribution of sales tax revenues to local governments, otherwise known as revenue sharing, has evolved over the last 75 years as a method to return tax dollars to the local level to assist with the delivery of essential services. The key is that this has not happened automatically but rather through a deliberate process whereby the levy of local taxes for services has been pre-empted by the state in return for the promise that a portion of revenues raised from state collected taxes would be returned to locals. Providing such a historical context is important as policymakers proceed with decision making.
 
 
Richard Thibodeau (guest)
02/09/2007 11:18 AM  
To address Michigan's deficit problem, seems that the answer has to be both cutting expenses and the State generating more income:Cutting costs: There's got to be a way to reduce cost of corrections/prison system. Can't we put more prisoners to work in CCC camp type operations to do clean-up work in places like Detroit and clean-up, preservation/planting in our parks, also removal of diseased trees, preparing much of the vacant, unused land in Detroit for urban garden enterprises.

Generating more revenue: Go after the tourist dollar, esp. from places like Florida, Southern States this summer. When are we going to start getting serious about attracting people from Toronto, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, D.C, and yes, from Japan, to "give Detroit and Michigan a try"? Virtually nothing is being done to package Detroit's music (gospel, jazz, Motown, Blues, techno, etc.) Yes, we have a couple of big events each year, but where's the effort to package tours all the time?

 
 
Tom Watkins (guest)
02/09/2007 12:25 PM  
Michigan needs an extreme makeover, not just a faceliftMichigan has been ostrich-like, with its head in the sand, for too long. Here are some ideas to address the chronic structural spending and revenue problems and prepare our citizens and children for the future.

A six-pack of ideas:

Stop pretending. Michigan's leaders have to level with residents. The only way to honestly balance a budget is to cut expenses, raise revenue, or a combination of both.

Our "fiscal crisis" exists because Michigan's leaders have not made the structural changes necessary to align income and expenditures. You cannot cut taxes while maintaining and increasing funding and services simultaneously. Pretending is not a solution.

Ask yourself -- if you found this great peninsula, with 10 million people and 1.7 million K-12 school age students confronting this disruptive, technologically driven, transformational global economy, would you create 83 counties, establish 500 cities, constitute more than 1,200 townships, spawn nearly 800 traditional and charter school districts, spend more to lock up people in jails and prisons than to educate them, have school funding increases go toward pension and health care insurance for current and retired school personnel?
If your answers to the above are "no," you may wonder how we change. Lansing must stop funding a system of governance that is outmoded, expensive, ineffective and inefficient. Schools and local units of governments cannot and will not reform themselves without the push from Lansing.

Let the sunshine in. Peel back the cost of government, make it immediately available to the public and let them see where the money is spent. Ask the residents ofMichigan,"Is this what we are willing to pay for?" For example -- should school districts provide pensions to part-time substitute teachers?
Should school districts provide lifetime health benefits for employees who work for a distinct for only five years?

Could we reduce overhead costs through consolidation and joint operating agreements, redirecting the savings to the classroom?

(See www.michigan.gov/documents/michiganschoolfunding_110803_7.pdf for a report I wrote while state superintendent 󞪁-05]that provides additional examples).

Scrutinize the entire tax structure. Provide the same level of scrutiny and exposure for the special tax breaks and loopholes provided to various businesses over the years.
Are these "exceptions to the rules" good public policy or simply good for the lobbyist securing them for businesses? Tighten or eliminate existing and future loopholes that rob the state treasury of necessary resources.

Appropriately define the problem. If the problem is a nail, the solution is a hammer. However, a hammer can be used to drive the nail in or pull it out. Michigan's leaders must stop defining the problem solely as a "funding/revenue crisis." If the governor's appointed emergency financial advisers view the problem as solely a funding problem, we all are likely to get hammered by new taxes.

Invest in our future. Be willing to invest as well as cut. We must help the most vulnerable, educate our children and assure we are safe and secure. Our elected leaders must take on the special interests and cut not only services, but also unaffordable tax breaks as noted above. Our goal must be to become the brain bank of the world, where knowledge, creativity, innovation and education are valued investments, where people the world over come for deposits and withdrawals.
We must:

Cut costs and then invest. Michigan should borrow or tax to provide necessary and immediate resources for our children's education. Continuing to cut money from our schools and universitiesis the equivalent of a farmer eating his seed corn. These funds should be provided only after the Legislature takes action to cut administrative (including retirement and health care) costs and redirect the resources to the classroom.

Create a state fund that will provide a 40-percent match to a local community's efforts to mirror a Kalamazoo Promise (www.kalamazoopublicschools.com) or guaranteed college funding to a two- or four-year state college or university.

Catch up with other states and nations by investing in high-quality preschool programs. Research has documented that investment in our youngest children (birth to age 5) has tremendous payoff to society in terms of reduced delinquency and higher achievement rates, building the foundation for success later in life.

The state that invests in its people will be the state that thrives in the 21st century knowledge economy. This is not a short-term investment. We must plant a tree, knowing that future generations of Michigan citizens will enjoy the shade.
The governor must force change. She must set clear goals, objectives and measurements for operating a government that provides transparency about how money is being spent and invested. She must provide the vision and hope for the "next Michigan" and show how these sacrifices will make a better Michigan.

Maintaining the status quo or dabbling around the edgeswill not get our heads out of the sand or take us where we need to go.

The time is now for bold and courageous leadership to get Michigan out of the rut.

Tom Watkins is a business and education consultant. He served as state superintendent of schools from 2001-05 and state mental health director from 1986-90. Read his internationally recognized report, The New Education (R)evolution, at www.nacol.org. He can be reached at tdwatkins@aol.com.

The Observer and Eccentric Newspapers 2/8/07

 
 
John Schwark (guest)
02/09/2007 1:22 PM  
To achieve the public support required for strategies to be truly effective in creating positive results for Michigan, those strategies must include pain to existing tax supported bureaucracies; political considerations be damned! The education bureaucracy, arguably lead by MEA interests, is a prime example...
 
 
Sean (guest)
02/09/2007 1:55 PM  
WHAT ABOUT A FAST FOOD TAX?
 
 
Scott Cooper (guest)
02/09/2007 2:00 PM  
I agree with much of what was said in the Crain's "Other Voices" article but have to disagree on the state supposedly keeping better score on schools. I moved to Michigan from Illinois where local communities, within certain annual increase caps, were allowed to raise and keep taxes for their own schools. In Michigan, a form of what I can only call "Republican Socialism" takes money from local communities, funnels it to Lansing where centralized politicians and bureaucrats decide what will be allowed to go back to each district. Although this may benefit many districts which before Proposal A were severely underfunded, it works to the disadvantage of many school districts known for their excellence and which had, pre-Prop A, set high levels of per student funding. These districts have seen their rates now nearly frozen for decades and their budgets being ravaged. This is their punishment for having established highly funded and succcessful schools. Efforts at passing "hold harmless" legislation to allow these districts the increases they need to maintain excellence were vetoed by then Governor Engler. Communities should be allowed to opt out of this Soviet-style centralized authority to decide if they wish to provide additional funding. Money isn't the only factor in school quality but there is a strong correlation between funding and excellence in schools.

Establishing a statewide "scorecard" will only add more costs and more bureaucracy for teachers and administrators to suffer along with that created by the federal No Child Left Behind law which is supposed to require schools to meet certain minimum quality standards. These standards have resulted in odd findings such as schools in Birmingham's excellent system, found to be deficient not because of low test scores but because not enough students opt to take the MEAP. I do not live in the Birmingham district but see other schools also suffer from the odd set of measurements which NCLB seeks to enforce. State standards will require more state administrators, paperwork, and other duplicative efforts. Let teachers teach and let school administrators focus on their schools. Since Chicago divided up its school disrict and put it under local community control, there has been a vast improvement in a system which William Bennet once called the "worst in the nation". These changes were not without controversy but the quality of most of Chicago's schools has risen significantly. When local communities are allowed to control the oversight and funding of their schools, there will be improvements.

 
 
Gary Fralick (guest)
02/09/2007 7:23 PM  

As we see in Pfizer's move from Michigan, our economic future is less tied to our tax structure (we've been cutting for years to what effect?) and more tied to how much we are willing to invest (in education, in research and development, in cutting edge sciences and technologies) and how well we do with those investments. But for one drug that looked so promising and ended up being unsafe and unmarketable, Pfizer's entire future changed.

We need to invest both private and public monies and energies into "knowledge entrepreneurs" with the education and background to successfully develop commercially viable products that will form the basis for a new economy. Let's leverage our universities to the fullest and infuse them with money to fund thousands of incubators. Let's be sure we are educating our K-12 students for the fast-changing world they will be living in, where change will come at an even faster pace than today (check out http://www.mi-life.org/MEMSPA/Did%20You%20Knowwith%20logo.ppt).

And let's not make our government and school employees scapegoats. They've taken it on the chin economically just like every one else. They're paying more in co-payments, higher out-of-pocket costs and getting fewer health benefits too.

Thanks for the opportunity to join the dialogue.

 
 
fjcoomes (guest)
02/10/2007 9:58 AM  
Phil,properly estimates the size of our states need for transformation when he recently called for or a "Marshall plan" approach to transition ourselves to the
new economy.Would the Governor possibly consider linking her call for
State govt reform to a partnership with local govts and the private sector
to concentrate all joint resources on the goal of making each of our communities
a more attractive place to live, work,study and play.This would obviously
be a massive project and be very expensive.We could consider funding it with
the 2 billion job fund on the logic that this would be a more powerful way to grow
jobs than our existing process.What do we have to lose. WE are so deeply mired
in the old economy we wont be able to dig ourselves out with a teaspoon
 
 
Lyle Birchman (guest)
02/10/2007 4:59 PM  
Financial Crisis: How much of the Federal taxes paid by Michigan residents go to support other states? Given the severity of our financial situation wouldn't you agree it's time for Michigan to stop being a donor state? It would be refreshing to hear dialog regarding this subject.Health Care Crisis: It's easy to point the accusing finger at the employees of school districts, businesses, and municipalities. Is that really the answer? The health care crisis effects the entire nation. Wouldn't it be great to see Congress come up with real answers or do the lobbyists still have the upper hand? And the often used refrain of giving a tax break to us to purchase health insurance is sadly out of touch with the pay situation many face. "Give me a tax break on money I can't earn so I can buy insurance I can't afford?"
 
 
R. Obrien (guest)
02/12/2007 9:55 AM  
Government is defined by what it values ,,,people over politics,,,,education over ignorance,,to date the citizens of Michigan have not made the choice,,the Government is even further behind,,,

In a recent survey of Michigan Parents 71% indicated that there children did not need any higher education for a quality of life,,,this trails all but one state Mississippi

Our leaders fight over giving the incentives to educators to begin continue and stay with the career they chose in Michigan

After 12 years of Republican " no new taxes" as the simple solution to getting elected by dividing all of us,,, now we now have a mess we could have forecasted had we had the political leadership to bring us together,,

We now have the choice''''' we will have to raise taxes'''' we have to get serious about education and this will include more not less money for education''''''''and yes anyone who proposes the 'no new taxes',,,,,,approach to solving our many problems should be ignored

people first,,,,politics second

 
 
LSmrkovski (guest) (guest)
02/12/2007 12:39 PM  
I applaud the work of Phil Power, John Bebow and all others who contribute to the success of "The Center For Michigan."With regard to the State's offered 8-step plan to deal with Michigan's "fiscal mess" there have been many good suggestions our legislators should consider.All Michigan citizens must contribute to the solution and make some sacrifice. A tax of 1 or 2 percent on food and beverages should be included. The exemption for beer and college sports events is ludicrous. It appears those exemptions are related to big money lobbist activity. Let's cut the political hog-wash and get down to business.After about 3 decades of what many consider legalized theft the offer to tax only the difference between used and new auto purchases is welcome. It is fair and should stimulate auto sales.As we all know one of our major problems is the cost of incarcerating felons. Many non-violent prisoners could be paroled. Many who are elderly and have serious health issues are probably least likely to commit additional crimes and could be released thus saving millions.Privatizing prisons should be seriously considered. While this nation out-sources millions of jobs [destroying our economy] perhaps it should consider contracting with Mexico to house career criminals. Given the cost of labor in Mexico no doubt millions could be saved annually and it may even reduce the rate of recidivism. Obviously it could provide for more employment in Mexico and reduce some traffic across our borders by illegals. What a concept!!!Keep up the work and let us pray the legislature is listening to us instead of the big money lobbyists.
 
 
David Potts (guest)
02/13/2007 9:33 AM  
I will and probably by this e-mail am calling for a Michigan Constitutional Convention last held in the early 1960s (''Con-Con 2007) to try to come to grips with the macro issues facing Michigan and our country. As public policy we have taxed and spent our way to a patchwork system of supplied services to the public at increased costs and reduced quality caused by the demands of an aging society and the rust belt circumstances. Michigan is not a healthy place to be and our future is to be blunt, dim. As I see it, the political will to make needed change is not present in the leadership of the state. Each component in the political quilt is jealous of it's prerogatives and will/can not give them up. It is clear the ''old'' economic models do not work in a global economy and ''future shock'' is here and we as a society seem oblivious to it. I think change is frightening to most people who have a real stake in our social order and those who do not simply want ''in'' or to get the benefits available to the haves regardless of how same are obtained. There is simply not enough revenue to provide even basic services to many units of government let alone the demands for benefits/entitlements promised by prior political leaders and the current group who value being in power. The ''business'' of public education is farcical. It would be in Chapter 11 if it was a private sector venture or initiative. The shear volume of money spent on publid education over the last decade and annually is staggering and the results clearly not competitive with other social states throughout the world with whom we compete. We see the cry for more education dollars as the panacea for our ills but do not see the inability of many students to do rudimentary math or answer basic questions about our country and it's systems. A Con-Con would give all elements of our social order the chance to voice their positions and claims at a new public conclave without political relationships which protect the entrenched and often less valuable members of our system of economic life and governance. So I call for ''CON-CON 2007'' More to come. Dave Potts Oakland County Comissioner from the 20th District
 
 
Ted S. (guest)
02/13/2007 2:13 PM  
I have not seen a really good, specific explanation of why Pfizer
decided to close shop in Ann Arbor. I can understand why the Company
needed to downsize somewhere -- generics overtaking expiring patents;
derailment of a potential big new drug break-through; etc. But why
abandon what must have been a state-of-the-art facility in what we at
U-M like to think is the brain center of the State, as well as the
location of a major life-science research institution? I know it's
been hard to get Pfizer people to talk, but somewhere there must be a
person who would speak if guaranteed anonymity.It's not just Pfizer I am curious about. It seems to me that getting
some candid feedback on why they chose to leave this area might
provide some significant insights on exactly what is wrong with the
State economically in the eyes of major business decision-makers,
beyond all our own generalizations. Knowing accurately what's wrong
should be the first step toward finding solutions.
 
 

Have thoughts? Let us know right here!


Related Posts
Discussion Archive: Page 9
A Way to Pay for School Pensioners
DON'T GET JIVED BY PROPOSAL 5: K-16 school funding plan is a cynical shell game that won't help kids
A NEW MODEL MICHIGAN: Eight ideas to restructure how the state does the public's business
A new way to bargain with, and pay, educators